MBOX-Line: From MRC at CAC.Washington.EDU  Tue Sep 12 14:36:43 2006
To: imap-protocol@u.washington.edu
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Date: Fri Jun  8 12:34:37 2018
Subject: [Imap-protocol] reporting/detecting expunged messages
In-Reply-To: <4507222E.7050706@sun.com>
References: <4505F2FE.8090807@sun.com>
	<Pine.WNT.4.65.0609111648410.5544@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
	<450713AB.4090601@sun.com>
	<Pine.WNT.4.65.0609121316280.2164@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
	<45071A57.5080406@sun.com> <20060912134217.X80085@orthanc.ca>
	<45071C8E.4010909@sun.com> <20060912134901.F80085@orthanc.ca>
	<4507222E.7050706@sun.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.65.0609121426210.2164@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006, Bill Shannon wrote:
> The spec should be very clear on what "correct" behavior is.

The base spec supposedly is very clear on that point.  Most of the 
arguments are not about what is correct, but rather about what is good.

> Neither the spec nor the test suite need to be perfect to deliver great
> value.  I see a lot of basic functionality that's broken.  A test suite
> that tested those cases would make a huge difference.  Specifying, and
> testing, the esoteric corner cases can be done later.

Unfortunately, "the esoteric corner cases can be done later" covers a 
great many sins.  What is an "esoteric corner case" to some people is an 
essential functionality to others.

Much of the problem comes from individuals who claim that IMAP is too 
complicated to implement from the spec, and thus it is alright to look at 
the examples and implement empirically to work with whatever server they 
have access to (client implementors) or Outlook and Netscape (server 
implementors).

A common server defies the specification in multiple places; when the 
violations are pointed out its author's answer is "yawn" or accusations of 
FUD-spreading.  There isn't much can be done in that case.  If a test 
suite was produced, such people would attack the motivations of the 
authors of the test suite rather than fix the problems.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

