MBOX-Line: From brong at fastmail.fm  Tue Mar 18 21:37:51 2014
To: imap-protocol@u.washington.edu
From: Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmail.fm>
Date: Fri Jun  8 12:34:52 2018
Subject: [Imap-protocol] STARTTLS after PREAUTH
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Message-ID: <1395203871.5223.96206133.66747719@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014, at 02:43 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
> 
> On Mar 18, 2014, at 8:34 PM, Bron Gondwana <brong@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> 
> > It's broken for now because of assumed future risks.  And that's my problem with
> > the standards world.
> 
> Where is your answer?

Pragmatic standards that solve the problems now, ahead of the perceived
potential problems of the future.  Designing for the future gets us ISO
7 layer networking, not TCP.

As an example:

In the mail space - it means replace authenticated SMTP with SUBMIT via IMAP.
That doesn't mean turn off authenticated SMTP, it means add SUBMIT via IMAP.
I'm willing to make a bet that client authors would jump on it - particularly
if it was implemented with a latch.

(by which I mean that the server sets a flag on the message upon successful
SUBMIT to the next hop)

Add a SPECIALUSE mailbox name for messages to be IMAP appended into, then:

> SELECT Outbox

> TAG UID SUBMIT $N (OPTS)
< TAG OK SUBMITTED $N ESMTP id A01306C0037

And you get single-copy-over-the-wire upload.  Define the few basics (strip
BCC) that everyone needs, and you've hit the 99% use case for right now.

Yet every time this kind of idea comes up, the naysayers are all screaming
"won't somebody think of the future" - and meanwhile exchange active sync
is out there eating lunches, which it so much should not be.

Bron.

-- 
  Bron Gondwana
  brong@fastmail.fm

