MBOX-Line: From mrc+imap at panda.com  Mon Jun 14 14:10:14 2010
To: imap-protocol@u.washington.edu
From: Mark Crispin <mrc+imap@panda.com>
Date: Fri Jun  8 12:34:44 2018
Subject: [Imap-protocol] IMAP MOVE extension
In-Reply-To: <201006142216.41783.witold.krecicki@firma.o2.pl>
References: <201006110854.37969.witold.krecicki@firma.o2.pl>
	<201006142108.34481.witold.krecicki@firma.o2.pl>
	<alpine.OSX.2.00.1006141208460.662@hsinghsing.panda.com>
	<201006142216.41783.witold.krecicki@firma.o2.pl>
Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.1006141354350.662@hsinghsing.panda.com>

On Mon, 14 Jun 2010, Witold Kr?cicki wrote:
> Have you ever offered them MOVE?

Our customers are quite capable of speaking out and saying that they want
something.

Nobody, and I do mean nobody, has ever said "oh, I wish that the move
command in my client did a single IMAP command."

Nor have I heard any client implementor ask for a move command in IMAP
once they are made aware of the substantial error conditions that they
would have to recognize and implement in their client.  It's so easy for a
server author (or protocol extension proposer) to lie and say that these
error conditions do not exist.

> Or did you just replied that they're
> cocky and want to undo the 25-year history of IMAP?

I could just as easily ask how you were paid to be a sock puppet.

> I know that in Your UW-IMAP-based universe copy is 'basic', move is
> 'extended'. But it's not the general rule.

That principle pre-exists UW-IMAP by several years.

>> In other words, for the benefit of a poorly-designed database, we are
>> supposed to add substantial complexity to IMAP and break a guarantee that
>> is a fundamental part of IMAP?!?
> I don't want to break this guarantee, it's You who's stating that it's
> impossible to make MOVE atomic. I oppose every time.

The only mail store that could implement MOVE atomically is a database
that was poorly-designed so that COPY is slow and MOVE is fast.

It can not be atomic in flat files and especially not in Maildir.  The
fact that it does not benefit Maildir destroys much of the claimed value.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.
